Urdu Poetry Forum

**Love Islam** · #31 01-24-2004, 01:34 PM

aek to mujha aaj tuk ye baat samajh maen hi nahien aai ke log itni asani se boldate haen ke quran ki baat sahi mani jae gi ya imamon ki ,,,,,,,,,, pichle 1200 salon maen poori muslim Umma in cheezon per muttafiq thi ,,,,,,,, or kisi ko koi aetraz nahien tha ,,,,,,,,, isliya ke wo Quran ke aek aek lafz ko itni achi terhan samajhte tha ka jis ki misalen milna mushkil ha

lekin pichla 200 salon maen ye logon ko Quran kase samjh maen ana shoroo hogiya bilkool mukhtalif andaz se yani iska mutleb to saaf zahir he ke 1200 salon sa log jahiliat or tariki maen the ,,,,,,,,,, or aaj kel ke Modern logon ko Quran oon sa ziyada bahter samajh maen ane laga he ,,,,,,,,,,,

to mare pass to sirf aek hi jawab he bhai ,,,,,,,,,ke log koi naya Quran kion nahien laate haen jo ke oon ke apne khayalat ki akkasi kare bilawajah maen 1400 saal poorane Historical Master Piece ke kion picha per gae haen or oose apne mutlab ka rang pehnane per toole howe haen ??

Quran maen to Allah ne gine choone Qawaneen batae haen ,,,,,,,,,,,,, baqi tamam ki tamam humen ahadess se hi milte haen bulke jin Qawaneen ka Quran maen hukum he oon ki detail bhi humen ahadees se hi milti he kion ke Rasool Allah(saw) ko oon qawaneen ki detail se nafiz kerne kaliya hi bheja giya tha or oon ki tashreeh kerna ka liya ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or zahir he Rasool Allah ke hukum ki khilaf werzi ultimatly Quran ki or Allah ka hukum ki khilaf werzi he

or bhai Luculant ji Imam-e-kaba ne jo fatwa diya hoga wo oon sahab ki special circumstance ko samne rekhte howe diya hoga or zahir he jinhaen Fiqqah ka bare maen Ilm he oonhaen pata he ke bazoqat teen mertaba aek sath so called Talaq dane se wo aek hi tasleem ki jati he ya bilkool bhi tasleem nahien ki jati,,,,,,,,,,,,,, oos ka mutleb ya hargiz nahien hoga ke wo onhoun ne poori Umma ke liya ruling ke tor per diya hoga ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, oos fatwe ki tafseel barahe mehrbani zaroor dekhiya ga ,,,,,,,,, bajae iske ke sirf oon ke fasle (conclusion) ko smane rekhen,,,,,,,,, kion ke log bazoqat sirf aek aek jumla paker ker oos oochalna shoroo kerdate haen doniya ka samne ,,,,,,

aek mertaba aese hi aek sahab ne Mufti Taqi Usmani sahab se koi masala poocha jis per onhoun na apna jawa de diye onhaen,,,,,,,,jister han oon sahab ne oonse detail bata ker net per hi poocha tha ,,,,,,, to wahi sahab dobara oon ki baat ke laker oochalna shoor hogae doniya maen ke Mufti sahab ne to ye Fatwa diya he Jabke Shaikh-ul-Madina ne ooosi masale ka Mufti sahab ke baraks jawab diya he ,,,,,,,,,, jisper Mufti sahab ne oon sahab ko jawab diya ke jo detail aap ne mujhe batai thi oos ke hisab ne mane aap ko apni rae di thi Fatwa nahien diya tha .......... or jo detail aap ne Shaikh-ul-madina ko batai thi oos per oonhoun ne bhi sahi jawab diya he or ager aap bhi mujhe wo tamam tafseel batadate to maen bhi Shaikh-ul madina wala hi jawab deta ,,,,,,,,,,,

aab aap log sochen zara ke log kisterhan in logon ki aek aek baat ko laker oochalte haen bajae detail maloom kerne ke ,,,,,,,,,

well i have only one answer ,,,,,,,

ke insaan ke jhoota hone ka liya itna hi kafi he ke wo soni sonai baat ko bagher tahqeeq ke aage berha de

to bhai mare ager aap Fiqqahi nahien haen to in moamlat maen nahi paren bilawajah maen kion goonahgar hote haen

or Islam per 1400 salon ki Authentic stemp lagi howi ha bhai and 1400 years are not a joke ,,,,,,,,,, if we reject them than we have to reject the Quran asweel ,,,,,,,,,,, because they are the only source through we received this Holy book ,,,,,,,,,,, non of any Jibrail(ai) is coming to deliver us from Loh-e-Mahfooz for the 20th Century Modern Moulvi's ....

khoosh rahiya aap log ,,,,,,,,,,, i know my answer is aggrasive as usual but i never scare to talk about the Truth

arshad · #32 01-24-2004, 01:35 PM

perdese,
iss ayat mein kaha gea hai keh talaq yafta aurtain na chhupaian aur unn k khawind unnhain lotaa lainay k ziada haq dar hain,

kaha gea talaq yafta aurtain aur saath he saath unn k khawindoon k baray mein kaha gea keh yeh ziada haq dar hain unn k liyyay,

aap iss sa kya laitay hain

**Love Islam** · #33 01-24-2004, 06:50 PM

dear Arshad ,,,,,,,,,,

ye jo verse aap ne Quote ki he ,,,,,,,,,,,,, ya abrogate verse he Quran ki Talaq ke hawale se ,,,,,,,,,, or is ayat ki or isi terhan Talaq ke moamlat maen doosri ayat ki tafseel inshaAllah maen aap ko aek do din maen tafseel se post kerdoun ga perh lijiye ga aap sokoon se taake aapke bhi or doosre logon ki bhi ya baat samajh maen ajae ke akhir ,,,,,,,,, tamam fiqqah maen pichle 1400 salon se teen talaqon ke aek sath diya jane ke baad halala ke bagher biwi ko wapus nahien liya jasekta or poori Ummah kion muttahid he or Imamon ke dermeyan ismaen kion ikhtilaf nahien paya giya aaj tuk ,,,,, siwae chand individual logon ke jinhoun ne inayat ko or isterhan ki doosri abrogated ayat ko istemal ker ke Quran ko apne mutlab ka mafhoom pehnate haen or isterhan kerne ka liya oonhaen sab se pahle hadees ka or Fiqqah ka inkar kerna hota he werna zahir he ke oon ka maqsad poora nahien hosekta ,,,,,

intizar karen thora aap

**Pardese** · #34 01-24-2004, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshad

perdese aap maslak sa hut ker baat nahin ker saktay

Asslam o Alaikum
Ji Arshad bhaie,Sab see pehley to meen aap ki is baat ka jawab doon ga us key Baad Jo Aap Nee Quran e Paak ki aayah Peesh ki heen us par baat karoon ga.
Bhaie ji,Mujhey aap ki Tajweez sun kar bohat heerangi howee hee.

Maslak keya hee?
Allah(swt)Key ihkamat,Rasool(saw)k i sunnat,aor Sahaba e karam(rta) ki tarz e zindgi jo unho nee guzari Hazoor(saw)ki sunnat key mutabiq.Aor tabeien(rt)Ki roshni jo Unho nee Sahab e karam(rta)See hasil ki,Aor Imamo ki Woh Roshni jo Unho nee Is sari cheezon ko mad e nazar rakh kar "Fiqah"ki soorat(Qanoon jo in sari cheezon ko mad e nazar rakh kar teyar keya geya)Ko Ham musalman aeek maslak ka naam deetey heen.

Kuch loog kise imam ki taqleed kartey hee aor kuch kise ki:

Magar Chal sarey aeek hi maslak par rahey heen jo meen nee Aoopar beyan keya hee.

Keya meen is koo choor doon?
Keya meen Apni us Aqal ko istmal karoon jo in cheezon see mutabqat na rakhti hoo(Naoozbillah)

Bhaie ji,
Aqli daleel ya Aqli bateen woh hi sahi hoti hee jo mazhab see mutsadam na hoon.
Aor Agar yee hi keh,Jab Aqli bateen ya Dalelen mazhab see mutsadim honey lageen Too bhala phir keya hota hee?

Firqey janam leetey heen aor firqa bandi ka Anjaam Aap key samney hee.
Har koi apney aap ko sacha kehta hee Siraf aor siraf Aqal ki roshni meen(us aqal ki roshni meen jo mazhab see mutsadim hee)

Brother jab bhi koi Qanoon key Daieerey see bahir nikley ga too Nuqsaan uthaiee ga.
Aoor jo mazhab key Qanoon see bahir nikley ga woh yaqeenan gumrah hoo ga.

Merey Kheyaal meen aap Meri baat Samajh gayee hoon gey.Agar Aap Thandey dil see Socheen gey To InshaAllah Meri Baat aap ki samajh meen Aa jayee gi.

Post kafi lambi ho jayee gi,Magar chand bateen meen Aap see aoor karna chahta hoon.

Hazoor(saw)Key Baad Sahab e Karam(rta)Aoor phir un key baad Aaney waley tabieen,Jinho neen islam koo Dunya meen Phelaya Woh Sab keya Aaja kal Key Aalmo see kam Ilam rakhtey thee(Naoozbillah).
Muhtram unhoo nee har baat ko Taqleedan aor Tehqeeqan Dunya key samney Peesh keya hee.

Aaj kal ka kooi Insan Ya 150,200,Saal pehley kee Insan Uth kar Naara Laga Deen Keh Ham Nee Jo Quraan Key Mafhoom Nikaley heen Woh Theek Heen,Woh purani Batoon ko ham nahee mantey,
Too keya yee sahi hee?

Har koi Apney Zehan key mutabiq Matlab nikaal kar Usey Apna rang dee day Keya Aap Us ko sahi maan leen gey?

Keya woh Puraney Buzurg sab ghalat Hoo Gayee Jinho Nee Tehqeeq Meen Apni Zindgeyaan Saraf Kar deen?

Keya 100 ya 200 Saal Pehley key uth kar loog keh deen keh ham theek heen,Baqi sab ghalat hee.

Keya pori Dunya Key Loog Jo In Imamo Ki Taqleed Kar Rahey Heen Woh Sab Ghalat Heen?

Meen Phir Kehta Hoon Brother,Mazhab Meen Aqal ki Baat Siraf Woh hi Sahi Hee Jo Deen See Mutabqat rakhti Hoo.
Warna Aqal Gumrah Kar Deeti Hee.

Sada Khush Raheen
Duaaon ka talib
Pardese

**Pardese** · #35 01-24-2004, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshad

perdese,
iss ayat mein kaha gea hai keh talaq yafta aurtain na chhupaian aur unn k khawind unnhain lotaa lainay k ziada haq dar hain,

kaha gea talaq yafta aurtain aur saath he saath unn k khawindoon k baray mein kaha gea keh yeh ziada haq dar hain unn k liyyay,

aap iss sa kya laitay hain

Asslam o Alaikum

Ji Bilkul Sahi Farmaya aap nee,Magar Bhaie Ji Poora Mafhoom Leen Na aap,Apni Marzi Ki Baat Nikal Li Aor Baqi Koo Choor Deya.
Bhaie Ji Yee Bhi Too Deekhen Na Key Ye Aaya Kis Maqsad Key Leyee Hee Aor Kis Cheez Ko Wazia Kar rahi Hee.

Brother Is Aaya Meen Eilla Ka hukam Aaya Hee(Yani Qasam ka).
"Yani un logon key leye jo qasam kha leetey heen Apni Aorton key paas na janey ki"
Aor Us Key baad hadayat heen.,"Yani un ko muhlat hee 4 mah ki"Aoor Allah(swt)Nee sarey masla ko beyan keya hee.

Brother Jeesa Keh Meen nee pehley bataya keh is aaya meen Eilla ka hukam hee.

Ab Aata hoon Meen Masla Eilla ki traf,

Eilla ka Lughwi Mani Qasam uthana key heen Aor Murad is see yee hee keh koi Shakhs is Amar ki qasam utha ley keh woh apni aorat kee qareb nahee jayee ga.
Bhaie ji, is ki Chaar Sorteen ho sakti heen,

(1)Matalqan Qasam Uthana Keh Aorat key Qareeb nahee jaoon ga,
(2)Chaar maah ki Muddat muqar karey Keh itna arsa aoorat key qareeb nahee jaoon ga,
(3)Chaar maah see zeyada maslan,5,6,8 maah key leyee qasam khaiee keh aoorat kee qareeb nahee jaoon ga,
(4)Chaar maah see kam muddat,1,2,3 maah tak aoorat key qareeb nahee jaoon ga,

Choothi soorat yani 4 maah see kam muddat key Eilla ko"Sharie eilla"Nahee kaha jata.Agar muqara muddat tak aeesa Shkhas aoorat key qareeb nahee geya too Qasam see bari ho jayee ga.Aor agar is doran aoorat see maqabrat kar li.too qasam torney ka kafara ada karna hoo ga.
Baqi teen sorton meen hukam yee hee keh aeesey Shakhas ko qasam toor deeni chayee aor us ka kafara ada karna chayee.
Aoor agar 4 maah ka arsa guzar geya aor qasam khaney wala shakhs aorat kee paas nahee geya too Phir Eilla MoaAsar Ho Geya.

Albata Is Key Hukam Meen Fiqah e karam Key Mukhtlif Aqwaal Heen,

Imam Abu-Hanifa(rt) Aor Baaz Dosrey Aaiema Ka Qool Hee Keh Aeesi ASoorat Meen Aeek "Talaq e baieen"Waqia ho jaiee gi. ab agar mard dobara Rajoo karna chahey too usey new Haq meher key saath dobara Nikah karna hoo ga.Aor agar Rajoo ka koi irada nahee too Aoorat Azaad hee.
Phir Woh Aoorat muddat Guzarne Kee Baad Dobara Nikah kar sakti hee.

Imam Malik,Imam Shafi,aor Imam Ahmed(rt)Farmatey Heen Keh,4 Maah ki muddat guzarne key baad Talaq Khud bakhood Waqia nahee hoo gi.Bal-key hakim e waqt us shakhas koo Adalat Meen Talab kar key usey Majboor karey ga keh ya too woh Rajoo Kar ley Ya Talaq dee dey.Dono sorton meen jo bhi feesla hoo ga us key mutabiq Amal hoo ga.

Yahan Yee Baat Bohat Zaroori hee keh,
Sharie Eilla Us Sorat meen Qaieem hoo ga Jab Aoorat key paas Na janey ki Qasam Khaiee ho,Agar qasam nahe khaiee,weesey hi keh deya keh Aoorat kee paas nahee jaoon ga too yee Eilla Shumaar nahee hoo ga.

Brother Arshad Yee Sari Tafseel,Aap Ki Is baat ka Jawaab Tha Keh Aap Is See Keya muraad Leetey Heen.

Bhaie ji baat DaraAsal Yee Hee Keh Hazoor e paak(saw)Nee Har Cheez Koo Khool Kar beyaan Kar deya tha.Jin Par sahab e karam Nee Amal keya Aor Phir Us Key Baad Aaney Waloon Neen.Aoor In tamam Cheezon Ki Roshni Meen Asool Fiqah Tarteeb Deya geya.

Sada Khush Rahoo
Duaaon ka talib
Pardese

arshad · #36 01-26-2004, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love Islam

dear Arshad ,,,,,,,,,,

ye jo verse aap ne Quote ki he ,,,,,,,,,,,,, ya abrogate verse he Quran ki Talaq ke hawale se

aap k khayal mein yeh ayat mansookh hai yah aap quran aur hadees sa sabit kertay hain ??

arshad · #37 01-26-2004, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love Islam

..... or isterhan ki doosri abrogated ayat ........

aap k khayal mein aur kon kon se ayaat abrogate means "mansookh" hain ?? [/quote]

arshad · #38 01-26-2004, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pardese

Mazhab Meen Aqal ki Baat Siraf Woh hi Sahi Hee Jo Deen See Mutabqat rakhti Hoo. Warna Aqal Gumrah Kar Deeti Hee.

jub keh mein yeh kehta hoon keh DEEN ke koe baat AQAL k khilaaf nahin

Quran mein jagha jagha aqal sa kaam lanay ko kaha gea hai, soochnay sumjhnay ko kaha gea hai .......

arshad · #39 01-26-2004, 05:31 AM

iss ayat mein kaha gea hai keh talaq 2 baar hai, iss ka kya mutlab hai,

Urdu Poetry Forum

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